Operation Citadel

[Gunther]

Using Vassal's VSQL software I am working on a recreation of the largest Tank Battle in History--the Battle of Kursk. This German Pincer movement was named Operation Citadel by Adolf Hitler. So far I have created a landscape of predominantly clear terrain with low hills to the north, sparse trees and a small village in the south.

Russian Forces include a full Regiment of T-34 tanks or 94 tanks.

German Forces include a battalion of Pzkw IV tanks supported by a Company of Pzkw V tanks and a platoon of Pzkw VI tanks. 61 total tanks.

or

40 Pzkw IV
16 Pzkw V Panthers
5 Pzkw VI Tigers

A Russian Armor company consisted of 10 tanks. Three tanks make up a platoon with three platoons and the Commander's tank making ten. There are nine companies plus three battalion commander's tanks and the regimental commander's tanks. I have not found tank commander counters in game yet--may have to use INF commander's as tank commanders.

The German Armor units typically had five tanks per platoon and one commander's tank making 16 tanks per company. I added one additional tank for the battalion commander. For the Pzkw IV battalion I gave each platoon only four tanks to recreate battle losses.

94 Russian tanks v. 61 German tanks in open terrain.

[TheLoneTerran]

Good tanks but if I remember right, and I'm probably not, didn't it take a couple of Germans to destroy a Russian tank if the German's didn't have the range advantage?

[Gunther]

Good tanks but if I remember right, and I'm probably not, didn't it take a couple of Germans to destroy a Russian tank if the German's didn't have the range advantage?

OH HELL NO!!
A Pzkw VI could would have a K/D ratio of something like 8:1 against the T-34. maybe even more. the Pzkw IV is a more even match.

[BCoop]

Did the German IV series have a name (like panzer or tiger)?

[Gunther]

Did the German IV series have a name (like panzer or tiger)?

The word Panzer in German means Tank. The full word is actually Panzervankampfwagon. Loosely translated means Armoredfightingcamptruck. Only the Pzkw III, V, VIA and VIB received nicknames.

Pzkw I
Created by: Daimler-Benz in 1934
engine: Krupp M305 57hp engine (Ausf.A)
engine: Maybach NL38TR 6-cylinder 100hp engine (Ausf.B)
Weight: 5.3 tons
Main armament: 7.92mm Machine gun

Pzkw II*
Created by: Daimler-Benz in 1934
engine: Maybach 140bhp HL62 TRM engine
Weight: 8.8 tons
Main armament: 20mm KwK 30 L/55 gun

Pzkw III Ausf.E
Created by: Daimler-Benz in 1936
Engine: Maybach DSO 12 Cylinder high performance 108 TR 11 Litre gasoline
Top speed: 40km/h (25MPH)
Main armament: 37mm KwK L/46.5 gun

Pzkw III Ausf.G
Created by: Daimler-Benz in 1940
Engine: Maybach DSO 12 Cylinder high performance 120 TR 11 Litre gasoline
Top speed: 40km/h (25MPH)
Main armament: 50mm KwK 39 L/42 gun

Pzkw III Ausf.J
Created by: Daimler-Benz in 1941
Engine: Maybach DSO 12 Cylinder high performance 120 TR 11 Litre gasoline
Top speed: 40km/h (25MPH)
Main armament: 50mm KwK 39 L/60 Long-barrel gun

Pzkw III Ausf.L
Created by: Daimler-Benz in 1942
Engine: Maybach DSO 12 Cylinder high performance 120 TR 11 Litre gasoline
Top speed: 40km/h (25MPH)
Main armament: 50mm KwK 39 L/42 gun

Pzkw III Ausf.M "Sturmpanzer III" (Storm Tank)
Created by: Daimler-Benz in 1942
Engine: Maybach DSO 12 Cylinder high performance 120 TR 11 Litre gasoline
Top speed: 40km/h (25MPH)
Main armament: 75mm KwK L/24 short-barrel gun

Pzkw IV Ausf.A
Created by: Daimler-Benz in 1936
Main armament: 75mm KwK L/24 short-barrel gun

Pzkw IV Ausf.F2 & Pzkw IV Ausf.G (G model had a muzzle brake added to barrel)
Created by: Daimler-Benz in 1942
Main armament: 75mm KwK 40 L/43 long-barrel gun (G model had L/48 gun)

Pzkw V Ausf.A "Panther"
Created by: Daimler-Benz in 1942
engine: 650bhp Maybach HL 210 engine
Main armament: 75mm KwK 40 L/70 long-barrel gun

Pzkw V Ausf.D "Panther"** (Heavier armor than Model A)
Created by: Daimler-Benz in 1942
engine: 650bhp Maybach HL 210 engine
Main armament: 75mm KwK 40 L/70 long-barrel gun

Pzkw VI Ausf.A "Tiger I"
Created by: Daimler-Benz in 1942
engine: 700 bhp HL 230 engine
Speed: 38 Kph (23.5 MPH) by road and 20 kph (12.5 MPH) cross country
Frontal Armor: 100mm
Side and rear armor: 80mm
Weight: 55.1 tons
Main armament: 88mm KwK 43 L/56 Long barrel gun

Pzkw VI Ausf.B "King Tiger II"
Created by: Daimler-Benz in 1942
engine: 700 bhp HL 230 engine
Speed: 38 Kph (23.5 MPH) by road and 20 kph (12.5 MPH) cross country
Frontal Armor: 100mm
Side and rear armor: 80mm
Weight: 68 tons
Main armament: 88mm KwK 43/3 L/71 Long barrel gun
secondary armament: 2x MG34 Machine guns (7.6mm)
52 King Tigers first saw action during the Ardennes offensive in December, 1944. Due to their size and restricted mobility they were used primarily in a support fire role.

Pzkw I: 1400 light tanks produced 1934-1942
Pzkw II: 2224 light tanks produced 1934-1942
Pzkw III: 5600 tanks produced 1936-1943
Pzkw IV: 8472 tanks produced 1936-1945
Pzkw V: 5953 tanks produced 1942-1945
Tiger I: 1354 tanks produeced 1942-1944
Tiger II: 489 tanks produced 1944-45

* Although production of the Pzkw II ceased in 1942 some units in the Waffen-SS continued to use this light tank in the reconnaissance role in 1943. By the end of that year, all Pzkw II's were pulled out of action.

** After doing research for this post, I have realized that only 250 Panthers saw service during Citadel. 125 were destroyed on the first day and 50 on the second day. There were only 75 Panthers remaining to fight the engagement. I had 16 in my scenario. I may have to adjust that number. It apears that the Pzkw IV was the predominant panzer at Kursk.

[roadrunner]

Soviets employed the concept of the zerg in tank warfare. The 76mm main gun on it and its so so armor were not a match for pzkw IV, and definitely not the panther or tiger.

So they used large numbers to overcome the shortcomings in design.

The soviets did introduce a T34/85 variant which was more on par with the main German armor but that was not until later in the war.

There were other soviets tanks and some heavier tanks but none were produced in the quanities of the T34 line.

*** Ugh corrected for spelling.

[Gunther]

There were other soviets tanks and some heavier tanks but know were produced in the quanities of the T34 line.

yes, I didn't use the T-34/85 model for this scenario. I'm using the 76C model. From what I have been reading on Kursk, there were huge as in Kilometers--belts of anti-tank mines set up around the salient. I want to somehow work the mines into the scenario.

I will read up on rule 55 Minefields to determine how to use them properly in the scenario. There are no counters in the VSQL software designated as the "mine" counter in SL. We may need only write their locations in the private notes or the Russian player writes them down and if a German vehicle lands on one, resolution is made. another thought is to use the "spotted"counter to designate as a minefield. We'll see.

Done. I remember how minefields work against vehicles. If the die roll is a KIA, the AFV is immobilized. You must roll a second time for an immobilized AFV, if it fails twice the AFV blows up. A blown up AFV is replaced with a wrecked counter. IF the AFV is immobilized the crew undergoes a morale check.

Infantry or Engineers can clear mines from an adjacent hex. Units engaged in Mine clearing ops must do so in the Prep fire phase. They roll their firepower or less to clear the mines. They can not fire in the prep fire or move in that turn while clearing mines. You can not combine more than one unit's firepower for mineclearing but surely two or more units can attempt to clear the same minefield. it would require two or more die rolls to resolve the attempt(s).

[TheLoneTerran]

Good tanks but if I remember right, and I'm probably not, didn't it take a couple of Germans to destroy a Russian tank if the German's didn't have the range advantage?

OH HELL NO!!
A Pzkw VI could would have a K/D ratio of something like 8:1 against the T-34. maybe even more. the Pzkw IV is a more even match.

Help me out then please, what tank am I thinking of? It was a very early model, probably in 41.

[BCoop]

Oh, I wasn't sure if the whole series was called "panzer" or if it meant "panther"in German.

And Road, hasn't the T-series of tanks always sucked? They've been always been used by third world country dictators like Saddam Hussein and have always gotten the shit blown out of them by Americans.

I learned this from playing COD:2, but the British Crusader Tank (which was actually a decent tank, with the exception of unreliable engines) that couldn't quite match the range of the panzers. So in Africa, they used to get large groups of tanks and do mass rushes on German positions.

Gunther, in case you are interested, http://www.wwiitanks.co.uk/countryindex.html has detailed specs and photos on lots of WWII tanks.

[Gunther]

hasn't the T-series of tanks always sucked? They've been always been used by third world country dictators like Saddam Hussein and have always gotten the shit blown out of them by Americans.

The Soviet doctrine called for putting a large quantity of easily built tanks on the battlefield in attempt to overwhelm their opponent. This is in line with the teachings of Sun Tzu. The Soviets also used Artillery based doctrine as opposed to the west's Maneuver based doctrine which is based on Von Clauswitz. So, when Road said that the Russians used Zerg tactics--they do, in very neat lines and formations.

I learned this from playing COD:2, but the British Crusader Tank (which was actually a decent tank, with the exception of unreliable engines) that couldn't quite match the range of the panzers. So in Africa, they used to get large groups of tanks and do mass rushes on German positions.

It is tough to argue the validity of a game. I have seen the "making of" a few games and they were quite accurately researched. I get my data from books. The Crusader was a very large target, but so was the Tiger. The Armor on the Tiger was much thicker than the Crusader. 1v1 the Tiger would win any day. Same with the Sherman (M3A4). The reason why shermans defeated Tigers is the same way that T-34's did it--Numbers.

Gunther, in case you are interested, http://www.wwiitanks.co.uk/countryindex.html has detailed specs and photos on lots of WWII tanks.

That's all nice links. thanks.
I got my info from
Baxter, Ian, "German Armored Warfare of World War II; The Unpublished Photographs 1939-1945", Casemate Publishing, Havertown, PA (2003)